'I was an easy target'

Bangaru Laxman, who quit as the president of the Bharatiya Janata Party following the tehelka.com expose, finds himself at a loss. He is sad that neither the BJP nor any other constituent of the National Democratic Alliance it leads came to his de fence unlike as in the case of George Fernandes. The images of wads of currency notes being handed to him across his table by the tehelka team continue to cause immense damage to his image and that of the BJP. V. Venkatesan met him to get his vers ion of the events. Excerpts from the interview:

You have described the Tehelka expose as a conspiracy. Who then, are behind this conspiracy, and what are their motives?

Surely those who are politically opposed to us. Especially after my taking over as party president, the social composition of the party underwent a change. The support base started expanding. More OBCs (other backward classes) and minorities were joining the party. This was an eyesore to many. Because they felt their constituency was being encroached upon. So I was picked up for framing. I had just completed three months as party president. I had very little to do with defence. No defence deals were in progress at that particular point of time. So, how did they choose me? Because I was an easy target. I was easily accessible. I was new to many things. Catching some soft targets, and showing that the whole system is corrupt, I don't think this gives a c orrect picture. My own feeling is that there were no defence deals after 1996. Those who were in this business for the past 45 years, they must have been feeling frustrated, since this Government tightened the procedures.

After the tehelka team met and gave you Rs.1 lakh, did you ever become suspicious of them? They, in fact, promised to pay you more in dollars but did not meet you subsequently, after the second meeting.

Certainly. In fact, I on the same day I informed the party treasurer about the whole thing. They were asking me whether they could pay in dollars. Then, I exclaimed, 'dollars!' But the exclamation was turned into a positive sign. This is a tape. Anything can be done.

The transcript quotes you as having said, "You can give dollars".

No, I did not say that it can be given in dollars. I exclaimed 'dollars', that is all. Therefore, what I was trying to say was, if they want to contribute more for the party, meet our party treasurer. So my exclamation was removed, and it was put in such a way that I was asking for dollars. They said they don't have rupees, and asked me whether we want in rupees or dollars. I said, 'dollars!' In a tape like this, dubbing is possible, fudging is possible. And editing anyway they have done. And I am told all these things were done outside the country. Tapes were taken outside the country, I learn, to Singapore, where the technology and sophistication is available to doctor tapes and microfilms. Somebody said they took the tapes to Dubai.

When did you deposit the Rs.1 lakh given by the tehelka team with the party treasurer?

On the same day, after the second meeting I informed the party treasurer that some party came, and they wanted to contribute, and that they were talking about investments in infrastructure projects. I don't remember the exact date, but I suppose it must have been before the national executive meeting in New Delhi in the first week of January.

Incidentally, procedural difficulties and policy difficulties were discussed. In that context they brought up the defence issue. They said they were going to supply binoculars to the defence. They claimed that with the help of technologically sophisticat ed binoculars we would be able to fight Kargil-type wars better. They tried to explain how it was operated, showed me the pictures. I said, look, what is the difficulty? They said the Army has okayed it, but the difficulty is because of the bureaucracy. That way, these dialogues came up. It is not that they exclusively came to strike a defence deal. They slowly dragged me into it.

Was any receipt given to them for the contribution to the party fund?

Their visiting card is there. But it doesn't bear the Delhi address. It only gives the London telephone number. Normally, the receipts are kept in the office. Otherwise, the entry is made (in the party accounts).

Can one see the party accounts to find out if there is a corresponding entry for Rs.1 lakh received by you?

Party accounts are not shown to journalists.

What is the procedure for collecting party funds?

There is no set procedure. On their own, they said they were keen on contributing to the party fund.

Have you collected party funds earlier?

No, this was the first time I saw a lakh of rupees as contribution to the party fund. Earlier small collections used to come, after I took over.

What is the amount nearest to this that you have collected?

Hardly, less than Rs.10,000 or so. And many a time, when I sat in the office, I immediately sent them (the donors) to the accountant.

But no one met you at your residence to donate?

No.

This time also, you could have directed them to the accountant?

But they were insisting (that I should receive it). They came with a purpose. They were asking whether they could remit it to the party account. When I told the party treasurer, I asked him to check up, as I did not know them.

Did the party treasurer check up the donors' antecedents?

After that, we got into many other things, and forgot about this. We never thought that this was going to boomerang like this.

Do you regret the choice of your private secretary, Sathyamurthy?

He gave me a letter admitting that he committed a big mistake in talking to those people. He did not resign, because there was no formal appointment. He came to assist me when I took over. He was recommended by a friend of mine, to organise my engagemen ts and programmes. My friend told me that if I am satisfied he could continue to help me. Because at that time I was left with no person, as I came from the Railway Ministry, and I needed somebody's help to function.

Do you think people within the BJP may be part of the 'conspiracy'?

As on today, I am not in a position to comment on anything. People within the BJP, they need not play such a dirty game. I don't say that there were no grounds to have differences of opinion. There could be differences of opinion particularly over the d istribution of work, day-to-day organisational problems. On policies, there is very little difference of opinion.

Does the fact that the BJP did not offer to restore you to the party president's post if you are proved innocent hurt you? The NDA and the Cabinet expressed full confidence in George Fernandes and offered to reinstate him after the inquiry.

I take it in my stride. Before I became the party president I was a worker. Now also I will remain a worker.

Are you unhappy with the party?

No. I don't expect this kind of treatment. In the government, it is the prerogative of the Prime Minister; here it is the party's National Council which has to take a decision.

But on the day your resignation was accepted, Jana Krishnamurthy was appointed as acting president, and this was described as a permanent arrangement by the party.

No. That cannot be according to the party constitution. Even if it has to be a permanent arrangement, it has to get the ratification of the competent body. The BJP has not given me up. The party is behind me.

Were you told by the Prime Minister to quit? You were widely seen as his choice when you were appointed, and it was felt that the Advani faction did not favour you.

I had a working relationship with Advaniji. They (Advani and Vajpayee) must have discussed before I quit.

You have just completed six months as party president. What prevents the party from saying that you can come back as party president once you prove yourself innocent?

They will be able to answer this. I do not feel bad about it.

The RSS has called you a failed swayamsevak.

(Laughs) I don't want to comment on their perception.