`We are against unilateralism'

Interview with V.I. Trubnikov, Russian Ambassador in India.

Vyacheslav I. Trubnikov, the new Russian Ambassador to India, is a veteran South Asia hand. He is no stranger to India, having served in the subcontinent in various capacities since the 1970s. He was, of course, representing the Soviet Union then. Like his predecessor, Alexander M. Kadakin, Trubnikov too is fluent in Hindi. He said his primary focus was to enhance further the relations between the two countries. In an interview he gave John Cherian, he spoke candidly about the current state of bilateral relations. Excerpts:

What is the current state of bilateral relations between India and Russia?

President Vladimir Putin's recent visit was a very significant one, which went beyond bilateral relations. The two sides touched on very important international questions. The most important thing is the changing impressions about India in Russia. Both countries had experienced many changes. You changed to a liberalised economy. We transformed from a centralised to a market economy and became a democracy. Both countries are multi-ethnic, multi-national and multi-confessional. Both countries face terrorism. We have the same attitude on how to deal with the menace. We cooperate in dealing with the issue. There is the narco-mafia, which poses a threat to both our countries. Our national interests practically coincide on everything. Though we talk the same language, we are still not fully conversant about the realities of our respective countries. That is why it is difficult for private business from both countries to increase their investments.

Is there a communication gap between the peoples of the two countries?

I would like to stress on some very important points. Recently I visited the Kudankulam nuclear power station site. I was amazed at the way in which Indian and Russian specialists worked together. It was a matter of satisfaction that the tsunami did not affect the site because it was constructed to be safe and sound. Several lines of defence and security walls have been constructed. Many of the Indian specialists in nuclear energy working there had earlier trained in the Voronezh nuclear power station in Russia. Indians who have been to Russia know the real Russia of today. This is unfortunately not true in most of contemporary India. I recently visited Kerala, Karnataka and West Bengal. There is a lot of regard for Russia but they still think of the Soviet Union. Others think that present-day Russia is full of the "mafia" and cumbersome "red tape", making it unattractive as a business destination. They do not know of the changes that have taken place in Russia. This is the biggest drawback.

How do you plan to improve bilateral relations?

We are planning to liberalise the visa regime and we expect the Indian side also to do the same. At the same time, we have to deal with the problem of illegal immigration. We have to work out a package deal on the issue with the Indian side. An agreement on the issue is almost ready. We need an agreement on readmission also. The Indian side has to agree to bear the cost of readmission to those people who have to be repatriated back to the country. These problems are easily surmountable.

What are the other outstanding issues?

Then there is the question of protecting intellectual property rights. This is crucial in the sphere of Indo-Russian military-technical cooperation. We are willing to share with India very delicate and sensitive confidential research information in the field of research and marketing. This problem relating to intellectual property rights is not yet resolved. There is also the issue of Russia's entry into the WTO [World Trade Organisation]. It is still not very clear why the Indian side has some hesitation or doubts because practically everyone agrees that Russia today is a market economy. But this has not been recognised in any official document. We are strategic partners. You know, for example, the Republic of Korea has supported our entry into the WTO, though we are not strategic partners. The Latin American club supported us though we do not have any strategic partnership with them.

But our strategic partner India has not yet declared Russia a market economy and supported our entry into the WTO. I am consciously pointing out the problems that have not yet been resolved. There is no lack of goodwill on both sides. Either it may be owing to the attitude of bureaucrats or red tape - which is the same in both countries. We have to overcome this because the leaders of our countries are in complete agreement on this issue. The political relationship is beautiful. The experience in military-technical relationship is marvellous. We have now to deal with real economic issues. In this area we have to do a lot of work on both sides.

Both the countries are now giving more emphasis on cooperation in the energy sector. India wants a stake in the huge Russian energy sector.

India needs energy. India and China need not less than 7 per cent annual growth, which is possible only if there is uninterrupted and absolutely secure energy supply. Russia is ready and able to assist India in this sphere. At the same time, we would like to study your experience in the high-tech industries. When President Putin visited places like Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Infosys, we saw first hand the progress India has made. The Russian President mentioned India's achievement during a meeting with top Russian scientists in Novosidirisk recently. Plans are afoot to put up six to seven techno-parks based on the Indian model in Russia, one of them in Dubna near Moscow. We want to be equal partners enjoying a mutually beneficial relationship. Putin's visit brought us to a better understanding on the direction in which our relationship should develop. This is the most important outcome of our President's visit. Putin was able to see India of the 21st century by going down south to Bangalore.

Are you fully satisfied with the current state of bilateral relations?

The military-technical cooperation between our countries is satisfactory, but competition is also rising. Now there are many players in the field and Russia has to compete profitably. However, the trade relations are lagging behind. The total turnover is very meagre. The $1.7 billion-trade turnover between the two countries speaks for itself. Compare it with the trade turnover between India and China - over $10 billion. With the potential of our two countries, it should not have been so low. To rectify this we have to sort out the problem relating to the Indian rupee debt. I have to stress an important point. The rupee debt was not imposed on India. It was done to help India at a time when it did not have the hard currency to meet its defence, security and development needs. It was not the invention of the Soviet Union. It was at a time when Western countries did not come to help India. When India requested something, they demanded immediate payment in hard currency. Now India is able to pay. Therefore we have to sort out the rupee debt as soon as possible.

What is the formula for solving this tangle?

The best way to clear off this problem is to invest. In the Indian economy, in the Russian economy and in joint ventures. Let us not think of counting every rupee and buying only coffee, tea and textiles. The list of goods India wants to sell in rupees is limited and is not satisfactory for us now. We have to think in a bigger way, we have to invest in joint ventures in the high-tech and energy sectors. I would like to bring in the Russian private sector in a big way into India. Another important thing I want to point out is the inability of the Indian side to recognise Russia's private banking sector. This creates obstacles in the way of our bilateral trade. Only nine Russian banks are recognised by the Indian side, all of them either wholly or partially owned by the government. The 1998 Russian banking crisis is history. We have very responsible banks that can provide guarantees for any financial deals.

What does the future hold for Indo-Russian relations?

We need to have an "aggressive information attack" on each other in a positive way so that we know where our interests coincide. The hesitation on both sides should end. There should be people-to-people contact in every sphere - in science, defence and culture. The potential is tremendous but we have to know each other better. Russia in the last 15 years was very busy trying to sort out its own problems. The political transition is over. We are stable now, economically and politically. We are going to deal with any country in the world from a position of strength. We have our political and geopolitical interests. We are sticking to our position on Iraq and on Iran. We are living in a globalised world but we must think of our national interests. Russia and India have a common perspective on major global issues.

We are against unilateralism. That is why we opposed the war in Iraq. We supported the action in Afghanistan as it was authorised by the United Nations Security Council and we were fighting against a common enemy - terrorism. India and Russia have a huge potential if they come together. Russia is a Eurasian power. China is also a serious partner. Russia is a bridge between Europe and Asia and it is something that will be used for the benefit of our people.